Coronavirus Special -“Keep Business Selling-Online”.
On this episode of Switched on IT, Doug Endersbee of Oz Hosting and Ray Sidney-Smith of W3 Consulting discuss the importance of businesses having both a web presence and a place to sell, online. During the COVID-19 crisis, many businesses collapsed because they didn’t have a way to continue trading, outside of their bricks and mortar stores. Understanding the process for building an effective sales portal is more important today than ever.
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Switched On IT with Doug Endersbee from Oz Hosting and Ray Sidney-Smith, Google Small Business Adviser from Washington DC, takes a serious look at what businesses can do to better implement IT solutions in their business. They look at a variety of subjects from “How to deal with security issues” to “How to use social media effectively”.
The show goes live every Tuesday night on our regular scheduled playout and every episode is then available on our Video on Demand section.
Raw, Unedited Text Transcript below.
Barry Knights 0:27 switched on it is proudly brought to you by computer troubleshooters to win the West and AWS hosting cloud Made Easy Welcome to switched on it. I’m Barry This is the show where we talk about everything it today we have our experts with us. Ray Sydney Smith from Washington DC and Doug industry from AWS hosting in Sydney. They today going to talk about at the end of the Coronavirus When things are getting back to normal and businesses are beginning to get back to doing what they do, and many places still don’t have effective websites. So today, Doug and Ray are going to talk to us about how to build an effective website. And one of the things out of the Coronavirus that’s really interesting is the increase in businesses having to do business online, both just having a website where people can see so they’ve got a presence where people can see what’s happening with their business and able to contact them and also the increase in sales on line. And this could be something that will be around for a long time. yet. So having an effective website and a place where you can sell and take payments is really important. Now, this is the subject that Doug and Ray are going to tackle today. They’re with us now. So Ray, tell us what the businesses need to do to ensure that they have a website presence that is going to be effective. Ray Sidney-Smith 2:28 Well, I think what, what Doug and I are going to be doing today is talking about, really the major steps in the process of being able to get an effective website live. And what I’ve just found over the years of working with businesses and launching websites, is that most websites suck. I can’t put it any more bluntly than that. But they are just usually terrible. And and it’s terrible for a whole wide variety of reasons. One is that the websites are really beautiful, but they’re not functional. That is that they don’t actually drive sales and they don’t understand how to market the business through the website. The other end of it is that the websites suck because they look poorly designed. They’re just kind of, you know, patchwork together. And they know that while they may be functional, they actually don’t serve the purpose of being aesthetically pleasing enough that people actually take them serious and allow for sales to help the business prosper. So starting off, Doug, I wanted to like just sort of talk about website goals. How what what do people talk about with you, when they come to AWS hosting, about the notion of establishing goals for the site? Do they actually really come to you and talk about what those things are? Who do those discussions really start with when it comes to developing a website? Doug Endersbee 3:50 I think a lot of the time, but by the time small businesses come to us they’ve decided that they need a website and they and they’re somewhat down the path formulating made big goals for the website. But very often it’s it’s all about business having a bit more credibility. So very often it could be a small business it might be, you know, in construction or, you know, or food, hospitality restaurant or whatever. And they probably have a pre existing customer base, well established customer base. And what I’m hearing typically is that, that they wanted to have a website because they just, I just felt that it enhance the credibility as a business that provided an opportunity. But there are existing customers and potential customers to go online, you know, maybe they see a little bit more about what the business does, how it’s able to provide a service to, to the to the user. And, you know, I think very often it’s just a matter of pride and I feel like we need to be able to, to demonstrate to our various stakeholders that were serious, a serious business. But I think in terms of the, you know, the core functionality of the site, and navigation and tools and specialist information that it’s got in it, that’s probably more of a conversation that they may have with the developer. But I think one of the things that I did want to ask you about Ray was, I guess one of the first steps is securing a domain name for the for the website, because that’s I think, sometimes a little bit of a shock as to what is and is not available to business owners when they start to go down that that path. What’s your experience with with securing tonight night? What advice Have you got the businesses in that respect? Ray Sidney-Smith 5:47 Yeah, so So I mean, let’s start off with the fact that the reason I asked you whether people come and talk to you about website goals is that they usually don’t you know, they’re there. By the time they go to the web host you have You have, hopefully worked through all of those things, and you’ve gotten yourself to some goals. So I really believe that you know, things like choosing a domain name is all stuff that needs to be done in a much earlier stage and preparatory work needs to be done. But registering a domain name is a very different process than choosing a good domain. And we can have an entire discussion about choosing domain names, I could I could literally spend hours talking about just the process of choosing domain names. But what I do tell people is that it should be brand enabled. That means that you should have a a business focused or brand focused domain name. and choosing that domain name is really important because as you’re alluding to, Doug, a lot of domains are no longer available because they are being they’ve been taken up over time. A lot of domains are now not available. You just can’t get your business name calm, because that may be taken by another entity. And if that’s the case, then you then have to choose Another what’s called a cctld, or a top level domain, either by country code, or a gtld, which is a general top level domain. And, and so we have lots and lots of these top level domains. So you can find a domain. But that is a process that needs to be done. But that really comes down to the goal of the website, I really, I really have to impress upon people that if you’re going to launch a website, start with figuring out what the website’s goals are. And from that you will determine what the appropriate domain name is, what the appropriate functions of the website are going to be. But we really have to start there. If your website is not designed to sell, then what, what what’s the purpose of creating the website in the first place? The whole point of having a business website is that it should do some part of the sales process for you. It should be a part of the sales process. It shouldn’t just be a brochure that is sitting on the web. And so often than not, we don’t we don’t recognize that today. We need to have a retail experience that is translated into a digital environment. And that is your website. And more stark than ever is now during this COVID-19 pandemic, that we see people who didn’t have that infrastructure in place, wish that they had. And so I hope, I hope this rushes in or ushers in a new era of understanding that you must have a retail experience designed around your website, just can’t slap up anything and presume that it’s going to work for you. You have to think through the goals. What are the goals of the website? Have you done buyer personas Have you done by your journeys to understand where your customers go along the path to purchase and then from there, establish what the goals of the website are going to be so that you can match it up with what you know is existing for your potential customers, your current customers and your past customers, because you want to be able to help all three of those audiences effectively on your website. Doug Endersbee 9:02 Yep, absolutely. So, having having sort of come through and said or out, we know what the, what the purpose of our, our website is, is going to be. As they as they go down the path, selecting domains, I mean, you’re alluding to the fact that there’s all sorts of different tlds it’s like all I know, you know, you can have a.com or.com that, are you know.uk.co.nz and so on and so forth. Even even within, you know, Australia, we’ve got the.com that I use the dotnet that I use, you can even have a.org.au if you qualify for that particular TLD. Should they should they buy up all the different tlds that their business name might fit into or what’s your what’s your recommendation in that respect? Ray Sidney-Smith 9:54 I think that has to do with the particular area where you are, I don’t know Australian law. But here in the United States, we have particular laws that protect or don’t protect people from impersonating others. That also includes impersonating other businesses or trying to do harm to those businesses by by registering those names. So really that’s a that’s a, you know, probably more of a legal question than a marketing question. From my perspective, if you want to do something, why called brand protection, then you do actually want to register all the common domains that someone would just generally type into the browser in order to find you. I also think that you should probably register common misspellings. So that if you know that you have your domain, like the business name calm and you recognize that a lot of people type in T h, as opposed to th e and the business name com, then you would register that domain and redirect it to the correct business name so that you don’t lose traffic to someone who would otherwise try to be visiting your website but they just typed it in wrong. So if you do have common misspellings, then registering a domain that is the common misspelling and redirects to yours to the correct spelling is also a way that you can do it. So that’s really a brand protection mechanism. Now the reality is is that if I’m just a jerk and I’m not actually trying to Misra misrepresent and be you here in the United States at least I can register a domain that you know is whatever re Sydney Smith sucks calm I can register that that domain and and I’m legally capable of doing it and I can put up a website that says you know, race it needs met sucks and these are the reasons why I think that’s the case. There’s actually a very famous Supreme Court case called Taubman sucks and and it’s based on on a mall and a gentleman who decided to register that domain Calvin sucks calm the name of the mall and and was upheld. And so the Supreme Court said, at least here in the United States that he could register that domain and it was under free speech protections for him to be able to do so. So take it for what you will, from my perspective, I would register the domains that I think are commonly associated with me and those that are common misspellings. I don’t, I just don’t feel a sense that I need to register domains that are, you know, re Sidney Smith sachs.com, or my business name sucks, calm, those kinds of things to protect myself, because I don’t plan on being a jerk to my customers. I don’t plan on being doing those things. But you know, some people may be in an industry where you have more of those things. And I have actually got guided clients to register those domains because they happen to be in an industry where they do need that type of protection. I think lawyers, you know, therapists, for example, especially in you know, when people are dealing with mental and emotional health, sometimes those folks who have challenges in that regard We’ll go ahead and do some really aggressive and mean spirited things toward businesses. So you may decide to register those kinds of things. So that you can protect yourself. Barry Knights 13:10 Right just in terms of that, I have two different domains registered that one is PTV channel Oh, which is oh.com. And I also have PTV channel zero. So the the number zero so that if somebody puts in a zero instead of a no, they still get to my site. Two people say to me, yeah, is it a no or a zero and it doesn’t matter. You can put one in there, we’ll get there. The other thing that you might want to speak to this is that in Australia, if you’re going to register a.au, you can’t actually do that unless you have an ABN and your website domain has to reflect the company correct. Doug Endersbee 14:01 That’s correct, it’s got to be, first of all, you’ve got to have some sort of business number. And, and then you have to actually agree that the domain name that you’re, you’re, you’re registering either is or is substantially associated with your line of business. And that’s, and that is to stop people cherry picking, you know, worldwide business names and creating a domain name out of all the ransom. You’re not the owner of that brand name, for instance. So in Australia, it’s, it’s quite tightly controlled, it’s quite difficult to, you know, essentially don’t try and steal someone’s brand name and resell it to them at a profit. You’re probably going to find that you don’t have the rights to even hold on to that. That domain name if it’s, if it’s challenged. The I certainly do agree with the concept of diversity. roadblock in your your business name into multiple different domain names using different TL DS that certainly makes a lot of sense. And the other thing I suggest to people is they should they should buy a registration period. That is as long as they can afford and are comfortable with, I think if it’s your own business name, and you got to be running that calm or that comedy you domain name with your website, the next five or 10 years, I’d say, just buy the 995 or 10 years, don’t panic every year when the new world comes in, and you’re scared that, you know, it’s gonna lapse and somebody else might pick it up and that sort of thing. It’s, it’s a pretty trivial cost in the grand scheme of things to buy the domain for five years or even 10 years if I if I offer that Ray Sidney-Smith 15:49 and keep the auto renewal turned on because it’s so important. I mean, I see I see folks who will turn off auto renewal on their domain registration for some reason and just keep your Auto renewal on it is just going to save you a lot of headache down the down the path. You know, it’s just you, if you want the domain than registered for a good length of time, keep on your auto renewals, and just put the date in your calendar. I mean, it literally will give you the date of its expiration, give yourself a month in advance of the expiration, toss it into your calendar in the future, three, four or five years from now. And that way, you know, you get a little bit of a, you know, a notification before the domain comes up so that you don’t have the hair on fire moment. You don’t know the number of times I get the emails or the phone calls of people who come back to me and say, Hey, where’s our website? What I don’t understand why our website went down. And this is three, four or five years later from from when I first talked to them about their website, and it’s because they they didn’t turn on auto renewal. They didn’t know maybe they changed email addresses. You know, they started off and they use their Yahoo or Gmail account, and then they set up their email with their Every business domain, and they’ve been receiving emails at their new domain, they stopped using their their personal account for that email. So it goes into spam or gets filtered out of their inbox. And so they don’t get the notifications. And then the domain expires. And then maybe someone had a backorder on that domain. And so they then register their domain, as soon as that domain becomes available, and they lose access to the domain. don’t have that happen to you really just set in the appropriate parameters for it. It’s not like your US Postal Service address or Australian Postal Service address. You have to keep that registration alive in order for that address to keep getting directed to you. Unknown Speaker 17:41 Yeah. Is your computer driving you crazy? Is it slow or doing things you didn’t expect? 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Take your next community event training seminar sports event official opening function concert or exhibition live to the world with PTV channel o and power FM’s unique live simulcast, we can turn your next local event into a worldwide sensation for a fraction of what you would expect to pay. No matter what the event PTV, channel o and power FM can take your message to our audience. Invite the world to your party by burning. Oh 43139092 or email fi Back at PTV channel o.com, Unknown Speaker 20:03 power Ray Sidney-Smith 20:38 Fm radio.com.au. What I’d like to do is to talk a little bit about the functions of making sure that the site you’re going to launch is done in the right order. And so again from the from the very getgo You know, you’re not talking to your web host first. You’re talking to the your whoever you’re working with and terms of work yourself. I mean, if you’re building the site yourself and you’re doing a DIY, you at the very least need to figure out your goals of the website, buyer personas and buyer journeys. Right. So that’s that main piece. The second kind of stage is kind of the, what Doug is talking about in terms of wireframing. What we really want to be able to do is to understand the kind of table of contents of the site. I actually when we talk to clients about developing websites, I frequently talking on I deal in the strategy space, and many times I’m project managing websites development, and Unknown Speaker 21:36 I have Ray Sidney-Smith 21:40 What’s that? Barry Knights 21:40 Like? My? Ray Sidney-Smith 21:42 Yes, there you go. Yeah. And so one of the most important things that I want people to understand is that they need to put their content together before we start discussing web hosting and how they’re going to develop the website and all of the all those other pieces. What we really Want to functionally figure out is what’s the Table of Contents look like for the site. And usually that means taking our buyer journeys that we developed. And if you don’t know what a buyer journey is, that’s really easy. You can look up customer journey or buyer journey. And you can find these, these maps, in essence, the visual maps of where customers go on the on the pathway to purchasing from you. And there are usually several different journeys that people can take. And certain buyer personas take certain journeys, and we want to be able to have the well worn paths covered. And your website is usually a critical part of that is that someone’s going to come across your website at some point in that. So one way that we do that is just create a a, a table of contents just like you would a book, and you’re going to outline what the website pages are going to look like and how people are going to navigate that, that that website. From there. You’re going to maybe create a PowerPoint presentation or use Google Slides. or a wife wireframing tool. these are these are specific tools that help you build a website visually, so that you can hand that off to a designer or a developer who can then go ahead and build the website from that wireframe. But you can kind of see it in a, in a, a less sophisticated, but more visual way. I like to use Google Slides and just create a presentation. And for each buyer journey, build out the components of the website using slides, because you could just literally put a button here, you can go ahead and put a photo here, put some text and you can lay out the whole buyer journey in pages on the website, in very, very easy fashion in the Google Slides, presentations. And from there, then you might have duplications of particular pages, and you should write because you’re going to have different pages. And so each buyer journey is going to be built out but they will be replicated from potentially other pages from other slides. So you can just import slides from the other pages have those all built out. And then when you’re done, you now have several slide decks that you then can provide to your developer or designer, and pass that off, if you’re going to work with the designer, maybe you work with designer with, you know, with the designer to create the slides together. So you’ve collaboratively done that. And then you can hand it off to the developer, if they’re a separate person or entity entity, who’s then going to be able to turn that that slide deck into the actual pages of your website. But by doing that infrastructure work, you’re actually building again, like I said, at the top, that retail experience, that then gives you an opportunity for your, your past, present and future customers to have a retail experience. That’s just smooth, that’s easy. And it’s actually selling them on something as opposed to just providing them with a brochure that really doesn’t do anything for them. Right. It’s not engaging them in the process of taking them from understanding who you are to understanding what you provide in terms of products or services. So Doug, do you? Do you ever see folks deal with kind of the hiccup of choosing what type of hosting based on the site that they’re going to be developing? Doug Endersbee 25:14 Yes, they generally need to make a decision between, they’re gonna have a website on a shared hosting service, or they gotta have it on a virtual private server. The arguments for for a shared hosting platform is obviously it’s very inexpensive, you don’t have the responsibility of managing the server servers need to hear and feeding their to Java task or portal itself to to maintain that. And if they’ve got something fairly simple, if it’s sort of a brochure weird type of website that’s going to be fairly, you know, rather basic, then they can probably get away with it. Having a shared hosting environment if they have something a little bit more complicated or might they might have several websites that’s not uncommon at all, then a virtual private server starts to make sense for them and then that can come with some some tools that will actually make their life considerably simpler because you know, when you’re, when you’ve got a website, you’ve probably got a content management system. You know, WordPress is a very popular one. And what a lot of people quickly realize when they’ve got a WordPress website is that it? WordPress are continually releasing security patches and updates for the content management system. If you’ve used a theme, the developer of the theme, needs to make sure that they’ve been remains compatible with the latest security patches and updates that WordPress have released. Otherwise, you can’t implement the security patches and yet besides going to get hexo that the theme developer has got to keep his thing up to date. And then there might be a whole bunch of plugins that you use and online forums and all sorts of different plugins. And all of those plugins may be kept up to date. And if you’ve got a good virtual private server and some some, some good hosting tools inside that virtual private server, and what I’m thinking of is a WordPress toolkit for instance, then you can vastly simplify the task of making sure that your WordPress instances up to date the theme or things are up to date, up to date, otherwise, it would be quite an arduous task. So we like to keep on top of all that in a shared hosting environment where essentially, your host is just hosting an application that you put in there, but everything that changes in that application is it’s your responsibility. I think a lot of a lot of small businesses don’t realize that they think that they can just put the website up there. And I don’t have to do anything for the next six months. And if it goes down and like, I’m looking at the husband site what to do, because I haven’t made any changes, and I don’t realize the fact that they haven’t made any changes is an actual fact. Ray Sidney-Smith 28:14 Absolutely, yeah. And it’s one of the reasons why I’ve really, over the years just push more and more people to manage WordPress hosting for those simple websites, where people are going to be able to just kind of, you know, once they set it up, the hosting provider is in the background, handling some of those administrative functions for the WordPress installation, so that they don’t have to really do a lot of those things. But once you get a larger website, that’s going to be you know, going to require a much more competent server environment. You know, if you’re in a virtual private server environment, a VPS environment or dedicated hosting environment, you do have to start understanding what these things are, or having and making sure that your support with your web host is providing that level of support for Making sure things are updated, making sure that you’re keeping the site maintained. But I have this, I have this rule, which is that if you’re going to develop a website, as a small business owner, then your website should be a website that you want to visit every day, if you were your, your, your customer. And if you don’t want to visit it every day as your customer, then why should your real customers, right? So think about it from that perspective, what’s going to make your website so useful, so interesting that your customers would want to come to it every day. And that’s the standard you should set for your website. And if you can do that, then your website is going to be something that’s valuable. That’s useful to people and that’s going to be well traffic, which means that you’re going to you’re going to be making money from the site such that it will be worthwhile having someone maintain that site. That is that you can take that off your your shoulders, specifically and put that on somebody else’s within the organization or with your web hosting provider, so that you can focus on providing great service, great product, and great customer service to those customers. So really think about what is what is the purpose of the website, so that you can really make a website that is of high value to people, and makes them want to come back to it day in and day out. And that’s the standard that I really want everyone to really walk away with. And so yeah, so you can’t make one that someone wants to visit every day fine. How about every week, you know, like lower the standard just a little bit, and it still becomes a fairly high bar, it becomes a high standard of creating value that someone wants to come and visit every week. And that could be a really valuable blog post. It could be a really valuable podcast episode. It could be a really valuable webinar that you’re doing once a month and putting onto your website. What What I mean by that is setting a standard such that you’re driving traffic to your website, and people want to be there. People should want to visit your website for some reason, and that Get them through that, that that initial part of the funnel, right? That’s the lead generation part of it, then you need to have the lead capture. And they need to be able to have sales. So you need to bring them through those stages of growth, so that you can actually make your website effectively capture sales and create sales for the business. If not, then all you have is a cost without it being a revenue generator. And I really don’t like the idea of you having a website that’s just going to be non functional for the business, it’s just going to be deadweight. So if you’re going to launch a website, you’re going to put all this energy into it, make sure that it’s a website that’s going to work for the business. Doug Endersbee 31:38 Yeah. And I think in this planning process, it’s it’s very important that the business owner maps out each and every page of the website with with every button with every image and you don’t have to have the final images. You just have to have a placeholder. You know, Insert Image XYZ here, but to map all that out using either wireframing tools or PowerPoint tools or Google Slides as, as Ray was was referring to as well, all of those make it so much easier for the web developer to understand exactly what it is that they are creating. And that will actually cut costs for the business owner. You know, the web developer is going to be able to give you a very firm quote, I know exactly the number of pages the number, you know, the buttons, the navigation, there is not event toing and froing. And sort of building it and designing it on the run, which just chews up an enormous amount of time when, when that particular process is done in that way. So, you know, to the extent that a business owner can map out their website using some of these tools beforehand, it’s gonna get done faster, it’s gonna get done a lot less expensively and are going to get exactly what they want. Back to the circumstance. Having done having done the wire framing piece of it what are the other things that we need to consider with all this? Let’s say somebody’s got the, the the, the wireframes done from a hosting standpoint. There are like, you know, I alluded to having a shared hosting or a virtual private server there is another type of hosting service that people can use. And that is to use an all in one hosting service, which is something such as Squarespace or Wix, where you don’t use a content management system, you’re not using WordPress, the hosting company themselves are providing both the design tools and the end the hosting service, right what’s your what’s your view on that third type of hosting? Ray Sidney-Smith 33:57 Yeah, so so I’m, I’m frequently ready recommending all different kinds of of services like that to clients when there is a really specific need. Many times, if the business owners, you know, if you’re just technical, you know, you know, abilities are very, very low and you really just can’t, you know, figure out how to use WordPress, that’s totally understandable. That doesn’t necessarily mean that just because you don’t have the technical competence to be able to use WordPress, you shouldn’t learn. Because if I tell you that you’re not going to be able to use Wix for the type of site that you need to build to make your business successful, then no matter how much you believe you can force Wix to bend to your whim, it’s just not going to ultimately serve you well, and you’re going to need to move to WordPress at some point in the future. And that’s for any tool. I mean, from Wix to Squarespace Squarespace to Weebly Weebly to WordPress. It doesn’t matter what the direction is what I usually try to do with a class As I understand where their business is going to end up 357 years from now, and have them designed the platform they’re going to be on today because it’s actually while people always think it’s really easy to move from one website from one place to the other, it’s actually rather difficult. And, and and it’s enough inertia that will hold the business back by just not putting it on the infrastructure place that it belongs in the first place. So I usually like to think a little bit further out than the business usually does. The business owner does in terms of where they’re going to be what they’re going to need that website to do functionally, and then say, Okay, if you’re planning on 10 years from now, still just having a front end that walks people through a very easy funnel, and ultimately, they’ve got a couple of contact forms. Maybe you have a blog. Maybe you’re doing a little bit of video on the site. Yeah, sure. A Squarespace or Wix or Weebly type site will probably satisfy what you’re looking for. When I start asking more probing questions for most business owners. rarely, rarely is that going to ultimately be where they end up. And so moving to a more full fledged web hosting environment with something that can satisfy what they’re looking for in terms of e commerce, or just additional functionality, you know, if you’re trying to build a membership platform, or if you’re going to launch digital courses in the future, or if you’re going to sell products on your website, sure, Squarespace or Wix, may be able to do some of those things. But they’re likely not going to have the flexibility required of you. So those are really, really simple websites. And, and by simple, I mean simple functionality, that can be really beautiful. And again, as I said, at the top, you can have a really beautiful website, but if it doesn’t functionally do what the business needs to do, then from a strategic perspective, it’s as good as useless and and that’s the part that I really tend to struggle with people on is that they want everything to be easy when it comes to developing the site, when in reality, what they should really be thinking about is how competent is the website. Selling what I need to sell and providing the functionality for doing so. And if the site can’t do that, if the site can’t do push notifications, and it can’t be able to show a pop up for various types of sales, those are functionalities that you just can’t make Squarespace you can’t make Wix put those things in if they don’t have it built into it in the first place. And they do, to some extent have those features. But the but the point is, is that if there’s a function or a feature that one of them doesn’t have, you can’t make them add it, that they’re they’re serving thousands and thousands of websites, and they’re only going to put functionality they want to put into their platform. So you know, having your own website where you’re controlling the software is where I tend to fall with a lot of people who are really serious about making their websites be a functional part of their business. If you just really want as you said earlier data a brochure website you won’t have a shared you know, even shared hosting with a WordPress installation. Pretty simple. But if you’re going to, if you’re going to have a full fledged website, that’s going to be a part of your business and is actually going to help drive sales, both from a lead generation perspective, but also lead capture and sales conversion, hands down. Most of the time, you’re going to need an effective website that can do all of those functions and features for your industry and for your business. And, you know, it’s just it, it ends up being, it’s kind of like, it depends is always my answer. Because I have to walk people through. Okay, well, how do you sell your business to this particular buyer? And what do they do along that buyer journey? And what are the features that we needed to be able to do? Will this particular platform be able to do it? We just don’t know. So we’ve got to do a lot of that heavy lifting upfront in terms of planning and structuring the sales features and then deciding the tool at the back end. Doug Endersbee 38:55 Yeah, and as a hosting, you know, business we’ve certainly had plenty conversations with business ideas that are built a site. In the early days when they thought it was going to be very simple, and they didn’t anticipate, even, you know, minor complexities in their requirements for their website. And they’ve got it on one of these pre built platforms. And they’ve come to us and say now we’d like to migrate it from where it is into your hosting system. And we want to use WordPress, that causes a little bit of a shock to realize that there is no site to migrate. It’s built into the hosting platform that they’re on. And it’s effectively it’s a little bit like the analogy that we use is it’s not like we’re going to pick out your house and move it and put it onto a piece of land. They’re going to give you all the bricks back and you can then take them across to our place and rebuild your your website. Because you just got to get the image files. And that takes balls back again. And you’ve got to start from scratch. And I think a lot of people that’s, that’s a that’s a big shock when they realize they’ve run out of road with the current sort of integrated hosting platform, and they need to go to something that’s a little bit more flexible, such as a WordPress hosting environment. Transcribed by https://otter.ai